Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 25 Jan 92 Volume 92 : Issue 44 Today's Topics: Amiga flamers Amiga geeks, read this Atarians, where are you... Dungeon Master, once again Enlightenment (was RE: Yet another ST for sale) Hyperformat disk on a PC Is STart magazine utterly dead? MIDI out to audio Monitor Refresh Rate Multifinder for Atari-ST ? (2 msgs) New Supra Modem... Questions about TOS versions Smalltalk for St ST Drive blues UNIX2DOS (2 msgs) What to do? Yet another ST for sale Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jan 92 21:44:37 GMT From: noao!ncar!gatech!udel!brahms.udel.edu!don@arizona.edu (Donald R Lloyd) Subject: Amiga flamers To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan24.165904.867@Eyring.COM> bcc@Eyring.COM (Brian Cooper) writes: >I certainly agree -- I get tired of adding kill file entries for each new >idiot that comes along with a commodore and an attitude. Never mind the >relative merits of their computers; I am now convinced I would NEVER buy >a machine that caused its users to go wandering around picking fights with >owners of other brands! Does the monitor put out some special radiation If you followed that advice, you'd never have bought _any_ computer at all. Maybe a used Vic 20 ("I know it's a piece of junk, but I bought it because nobody who owns one ever says it's better than anything else!") ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 02:33:10 GMT From: news.hawaii.edu!uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!jimmy@ames.arpa (Jimmy Chan) Subject: Amiga geeks, read this To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <53265@cup.portal.com> Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com (William Thomas Daugustine) writes: > >If you are an Atari ST user, and have no desire to move to an Amiga >quit out of this. {Other dribble deleted for brevity} What does owning an Atari ST have to do with being able to read comp.sys.atari.st. I don't recall owning something was a prerequisite for reading a newsgroup. Anyone with an interest in reading about Atari STs are entitled to join in. If you want to keep out unwanted posts in a newsgroup I would suggest having the newgroup moderated but until then anyone is entitled to read and post news though this does not forgive those who only enjoy flame-baiting and those who have to use derogatory remarks to get there points across. Sorry, I keep reading posts from self-proclaimed net police to get out of a newsgroup when they have no authority to do so. Just because someone posts something another reader doesn't like, we get these ravings of "GET OUT OF HERE". This is a forum for discuss not censureship. -- /-----------------------------\ |jimmy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | \-----------------------------/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1992 22:48 EDT From: MJOHNSTON%COLGATEU.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Atarians, where are you... To: INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu 1/24/92 If the Amiga/Atari slagging match has descended to the level of gloating about "eleven-character file names", hasn't it become terminally silly? Anybody whose ego is so fragile that it depends upon a computer brand name for sustenance is too bl**dy dim to contribute anything to these discussions. Shall we get on with more worthwhile topics (such as *somebody* sending me an answer to my question about downloading problems on Zmodem)? M. Johnston (MJOHNSTON@COLGATEU.BITNET) ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 23:58:05 GMT From: haven.umd.edu!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!sigma!boyd@ames.arpa (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Dungeon Master, once again To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan22.194955.24668@milton.u.washington.edu>, tymbrimi@milton.u.washington.edu (Ben Gilbert) writes: >Ok, I have played through Dungeon Master and I am at the end, you know I'm >sealed off down there with Chaos, I've destroyed all the flame-sloth things >and the dragon and I have the firestaff etc.... > > >My question is simple : HOW do I kill Chaos? I know it's something about >fluxcaging/fusing but I have been fighting him for at least 5-10 hours (no, >not all at once) with no effect. Someone help please, I'm running out of >food/water... > >Ben Surround him with fluxcages (all 8 squares around him), and fuse. He will not weather the experience well. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar." ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 00:08:25 GMT From: nevada.edu!jimi2!equinox!pyramid.cs.unr.edu!chan@uunet.uu.net Subject: Enlightenment (was RE: Yet another ST for sale) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <31717@natinst.natinst.com> you write: >england@u.washington.edu writes ... > >> Heh heh.... Like a rat scrambling to abandon a sinking ship, yet another >> Atarian offers up his 'computer' hoping that some fool will be stupid enough >> to buy it. > > I just wanted to mention that I can see at least 4X as many Amigas >for sale per week as Ataris. In fact they had to create a whole seperate >newsgroup just for unloading Amigas! > >> Heh heh.... GEE. WOW. Are we Atari users being enlightened by the Amiga cult users?! There are many Amiga newsgroups and a few Amiga users have to pick comp.sys.atari.st! The question of the hour is: WHY? Their continual gripes, denunciations, and immaturity is clogging our group! Are they trying to lower our moral? Or are they disturbed? (Please NOTE that this is directed at the immature poster NOT some other computer user correcting mistakes in posts of Atari users). ~~~~~~~~~~ Are you going to move to Japan because the US' economy is down? All I can say is: SHUT UP.... it's getting ridiculous!!!!!!!! *OR* they should flame through Email!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ __________ _______ / ________() Kaho Chan(man) / / / / L_____ University of /* / / /_/_____() Nevada, Reno \ / /_________ Internet: \ / L________() chan@cs.unr.edu \/~ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 07:57:32 GMT From: waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!status!jonc@decwrl.dec.com (Jon Clarke) Subject: Hyperformat disk on a PC To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: > Well, it also depends on the PC. My roomates Zentih with a HD drive > could read the extended formats. (I don't know if I've tried 11 sectors, > maybe I'll do that tonight and find out.) We joked about how his Zenith > could read and write to my ST disks, saying the computer had the "Atari > Spirit!!" I haven't tried it with a PS/2 or anything though. But I know > the Zentih could read 10 sectors/80 tracks. (CHKDSK came back with 800K > free on the disk.) > There is an old adage .. "Man with sector editor can make any disk say it is more than it is under dos/tos/gem etc..) Weither or not the drive will read past a certain point is another matter.. _ Jon Clarke o( ) STaTus BBS, The Atari BBS in Auckland, NZ jonc@status.gen.nz / /\ If that does not work try these address's Z*NET PC Global Point kcbbs.gen.nz!status!jonc or on GEnie : J.CLARKE6 Auckland, New Zealand or we are also FIDO Node 3:772/105 FNET:Oneday ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 08:24:07 GMT From: waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!status!jonc@decwrl.dec.com (Jon Clarke) Subject: Is STart magazine utterly dead? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu gfarrell@tomato.csil.sfu.ca (Gordon James Farrell) writes: > I had about 7 or 8 myself) by creating a new company (I forget the name), > transferring all of Antic's assets to the new company, and declaring Antic t > be non-existant!!!!! Therefore, they don't owe their subscribers (or any of > their other creditors) any money!!!!!! > Well you could always hit the holding company with a "218" for the outstanding subscription you have and put them into chapter 11 so to speak for a few days. I am sure this will do good for their crediblitiy (it might even feel goooooood). (These are my thought and mine alone , right Jack, "yhea right") _ Jon Clarke o( ) STaTus BBS, The Atari BBS in Auckland, NZ jonc@status.gen.nz / /\ If that does not work try these address's Z*NET PC Global Point kcbbs.gen.nz!status!jonc or on GEnie : J.CLARKE6 Auckland, New Zealand or we are also FIDO Node 3:772/105 FNET:Oneday ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 18:57:17 GMT From: mcrware!mwca!bill@uunet.uu.net (Bill Sheppard) Subject: MIDI out to audio To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <53169@cup.portal.com> Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com (William Thomas Daugustine) writes: > >Hi. I am interested in a hopefully easy way to take the stuff that >I record via MIDI on my STe, and somehow pump it thru the STes >stereo audio out. Anyway I can do this without buying stuff like >expensive digitizers? MMM (Midi Music Maker) will play Midi files through your speaker, though it doesn't attempt to synthesize anything other than standard ST 'beeps'. Available from atari.archive, GEnie, and other fine sources. Shareware. -- ############################################################################## # Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill # # Microware Systems Corporation -- OS-9 / OS-9000 / CD-RTOS -- (408)980-0201 # ############# Opinions expressed are my own and usually wrong ################ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 00:38:32 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server. csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!newshost.uwo.ca!obelix.gaul.csd.uwo .ca!tucker@arizona.edu (John Tucker) Subject: Monitor Refresh Rate To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi, This could be FAQ but here it goes: I am attempting to write a vertical blank routine which will maintain a simple timer by incrementing a counter. I think I need to know the monitor refresh rate to assign a real world value to this (or do I?). Comments, better ideas, clarifications are definitely welcome. Oh, by the way, the language I am using is assembly. Replies by posting here welcome, or e-mail them and I will summarize. I am: REAL WORLD: John Tucker JOB: sa_john@sscl.uwo.ca SCHOOL: tucker@gaul.csd.uwo.ca ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 19:23:18 GMT From: olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@ames.arpa (Steve Yelvington) Subject: Multifinder for Atari-ST ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <1992Jan24.171135.12394@cs.wayne.edu>, pbh@jake.cc.wayne.edu (Patrick Haggood) writes ... ] >>In article <29446@imag.imag.fr> maraninx@imag.fr (Florence Maraninchi) writes: >>>Or perhaps someone can find another way of solving my problem : >>>I would like to use a Lisp interpreter which does not allow to call an editor. >>>And I don't want to quit the interpreter, then to load the editor, etc... >>>for each modification of the source. > > I don't know Prolog from ADA(m) (forced pun, sorry) but I found that by > modifying the macros file that came with C-Breeze, I am now able to > compile G++ from the menu bar, ala Turbo-C on PC's. Works pretty well, > too. You can probably find C-Breeze for less than $20 mail order; I > think I bought mine at a WAACE for around that. E. Arthur Brown sells it, but I don't know whether they ship to France. You can do pretty much the same thing with most versions of MicroEMACS (and, I think, Origami as well). I usually compile C code directly from my editor, using Sozobon C and a version of Conroy's MicroEMACS that I compiled with Sozobon. But note that the compiler doesn't stay resident; it has to be loaded for each pass. If you have enough RAM to hold the Lisp interpreter on a RAMdisk and still run it, that might speed things up considerably. It sounds like what's really needed here is just a task switcher, like the old Juggler program. I don't know if it's still available, or if it supports non-GEM programs. Never used it. -- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota Note: Mail to the .mn.org domain has been failing for about a month. If your mail bounces, try cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve. It's probably another side effect of the Super Bowl. (I'm praying for a blizzard on Super Sunday.) ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 00:01:37 GMT From: haven.umd.edu!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!sigma!boyd@ames.arpa (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Multifinder for Atari-ST ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <29446@imag.imag.fr>, maraninx@imag.fr (Florence Maraninchi) writes: > >I need something like the equivalent of the Macintosh multifinder for Atari ST. >Does it exist ? There is an application called Revolver which can give you multiple ST's that you can select with hot-keys. For example, you can split a 4 meg ST into 4 1040ST's (functionally at least), and switch back and forth between them. In your case, you would probably (given 4 megs) use 3.5 megs for LISP and 512k for your editor. > >Or perhaps someone can find another way of solving my problem : >I would like to use a Lisp interpreter which does not allow to call an editor. >And I don't want to quit the interpreter, then to load the editor, etc... >for each modification of the source. If it is a GEM application you might try using an accessory editor, like STENO. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar." ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 23:57:01 GMT From: haven.umd.edu!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!sigma!boyd@ames.arpa (Mickey Boyd) Subject: New Supra Modem... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan22.194723.23878@milton.u.washington.edu>, tymbrimi@milton.u.washington.edu (Ben Gilbert) writes: >Hi, I recently saw an ad in a friend's computer magazine for a new >Supra modem, something like the Supra 2400 PLUS, it says it has >asynchronous 300,1200,2400 bps (that's the usual I suppose), 4800 bps >with MNP 5, and 9600 bps with v32.bis or v42.bis (can't remember which). >So can I actually pay the CHEAP $130 bucks for this modem and dial up >my school net at 9600 baud? Sounds like a good deal to me, I know that >my school dial-in IS this new v32(42).bis thing, someone tell me, 9600 >baud would be awesome for only $130 mail order... > Um, I think perhaps they are referring to optimal throughput with compression. Thus, you could conceivably get 9600 baud every once in awhile (when you just happen to be modeming something that can be compressed 4-1), but the modem will not operate at that speed all the time. I have found that even at true 9600 baud (32000 baud optimal), the overhead introduced by the MNP error checking just about cancels out any speed advantage from data compression. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar." ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 23:42:23 GMT From: ogicse!orstcs!orstcs!usenetusenet@uunet.uu.net (John Thaanum) Subject: Questions about TOS versions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Anybody out there swapped the new TOS 2.06 into their old ST? How tough is it to install? I'm also wondering how the new TOS deals with things like lack of Blitter, only 512 color palette, etc. Do any of you know if Falcon runs under 2.06? I've had 1.4 installed for a while, and my copy of Falcon craps out at the "Insert Disk Two" prompt. I like the game, but not enough to justify ripping the cover of my machine and popping 1.0 back in every time I want to play it. So do I get TOS 2.06, or sell Falcon, or just quit asking so many questions? Thanks, -- +--------------------------------------------------------+ John Thaanum thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu "A better tomorrow takes your best today..." -Triumph +--------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 04:30:04 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Alex.Valdez@uunet.uu.net (Alex Valdez) Subject: Smalltalk for St To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <6306@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> marshall@cs.uq.oz.au writes: > Is there a binary of Smalltalk (not "Little Smalltalk") that runs on a > Mega4Ste? Is it PD? If so, where is it? If not, where is it, anyway! > Thanks. GNU Smalltalk is in a.a. I've no idea how good it is as I have never tried running it. -- ================================Alex Valdez============================= ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 00:11:33 GMT From: haven.umd.edu!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!sigma!boyd@ames.arpa (Mickey Boyd) Subject: ST Drive blues To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan22.164419@aifh.ed.ac.uk> aiscc@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Stuart Charman) writes: > >I have but a lowly single-sided internal drive, and am desperately in need >of an update to double-sided. Can anyone give me any advice as to the best >or cheapest way to go about this. Can I simply buy a external drive, or must >I fit a new internal. What price an internal, can I fit it myself. Get the file "ibmdrive.lzh" from atari.archive.umich.edu. It will tell you all you want to know about ST drives. Buy a Teac mechanism. They do not seem to have the media change detection problem that other mechs sometimes have with ST's. Feel free to email if you get stuck. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar." ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 01:49:03 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!garbo.uc c.umass.edu!dime!michael@arizona.edu (Michael Kieras) Subject: UNIX2DOS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan24.040445.26274@hemlock.cray.com> marc@hemlock.cray.com (Marc Bouron) writes: >I downloaded UNIX2DOS.LZH, believing it to transmogrify UNIX text files to DOS >text files, i.e. convert the record relimiters to . However, I >don't seem to be able to get the program to do anything. There were no docs, so >I've been `shooting in the dark'. The program itself is only %450 bytes long. >Is the copy at a.a wrong? I am wrong? (Don't answer that...) Any clues and/or >divine insight would be very much appreciated. Otherwise, I'll just have to >write the program myself, and that's just not cricket! Unix2dos is a neat little program that makes the system recognize forward-slashes (/) as directory separators instead of back-slashes. I run it from my auto folder. The only problem I have with it is that I can't used it to input a top-level directory as just "/". The version I have is 1.2. Does anyone know of a more recent version that can handle "/" to mean a root directory? Michael Kieras michael@cs.umass.edu ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jan 92 01:53:40 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!garbo.ucc.u mass.edu!dime!michael@arizona.edu (Michael Kieras) Subject: UNIX2DOS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <42250@dime.cs.umass.edu> I write: >The only problem I have with it is that I can't used it to input a ~~~~ AAARGH! I hate it when I miss typos. Obviously, it should be "I can't use it to..." Sorry to waste more space with a correction. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 21:45:41 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!pinelr@arizona.edu (Robert Jeffrey Pinelli) Subject: What to do? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan24.013945.1783@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes: >In article <4f3rxzd@rpi.edu> pinelr@aix.rpi.edu (Robert Jeffrey Pinelli) writes: >> In article <1992Jan23.031750.19244@verdix.com> scotty@verdix.com (Scott R. Chilcote) writes: >> > >> >Hey, Ken, this isn't as twisted as it sounds! >> >> --Rob >> >> p.s. To get an idea how old my mega is, it has the 6 chip ROM set in it that >> almost NO Megas have! Boy am I glad I didn't take Toad Computer's word for >> it when ordering my TOS 1.4 upgrade! >> > >Can you tell me what the problem was , as these machines can take both, >the 2 chip set is far better as it has less buss loading.. > >The only problem could be with very old ST's and ones with 2 rom sockets >as they can only take this 2 chip set, with out adding the extra sockets.. As far as I know, you cannot pop a 2-chip set into 2 of the sockets on a motherboard designed for a 6 chip set. That would mean that each socket must be addressed as if it were actually 3. Toad was quite adamant in its advertisements about making sure which set you needed (which is why I went through the ordeal of opening up my Mega to check!) --Rob ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 92 21:41:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!gatech!udel!brahms.udel.edu!don@arizona.edu (Donald R Lloyd) Subject: Yet another ST for sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have a feeling I'll regret posting here, but here goes anyway: In article <1992Jan24.020204.2421@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes: >Well I quoted negative sales, meaning that they are taking there A500 Plus >back to the shops as they don't play games any more. >One shop here stated to me that only 2 games in the shop would work on >the New A500 +. >The games that are packed with the machine, most don't work, Commodore >include a list with the machine of the games that don't work.. >And even Lemmings does not work, is that a old game..?? Commodore laid down rules long ago about what not to do to maintain compatibility. If the rules were followed, the software generally worked. If not, it's the developers' own fault. Lemmings works fine on my A3000 running the same version of the OS as the 500+, with the added complication of a 25MHz '030, different bus structure, etc. Not all old games fail either... I can still run Defender of the Crown (probably the first Ami game, released something like 7 years ago) on the latest hardware. >All this has been confirmed by 2 other Amiga Shops here My statements are confirmed by the machine I'm typing this on :-). >Hey this new work bench that they have still can't lasso files, to >copy or delete.. Funny, I do it all the time. Maybe I've got some sort of virus that adds lassoing capability to the workbench? >And they still use Sum Checks on all there disks..!! Uuhhhh... so? I'm curious as to the state of Atari in Europe at this point. Nothing in this post is meant as a flame or insult; I'm just trying to offer corrections to some inaccuracies and ask some honest questions. No, I'm not an Amiga user who skims the Atari groups looking for flame wars to jump into. I occasionally peek into c.s.a.st out of a genuine interest in what's going on in the ST world. OK, now that the flame retardant has been applied, back to my question: how is Atari doing in Europe? From the little I've heard lately it sounds as if they're heading downhill there and picking up speed. Is the TT selling much? I have yet to see a TT in person. There are, as far as I know, _no_ Atari dealers or users' groups left in this (admittedly small) state, and all 3 ST users I've known have long since moved on to other machines. What kind of features does the latest TOS have? I don't even know what version it is, which machines it runs on, etc. Could somebody maybe send me some informative screen shots (in GIF or IFF format) :-)? Oh, and a note to whoever posted part of this thread to c.s.a.advo with a 'Please get this out of our newsgroup' type heading.... not a good idea. It only attracts more of us insecure, jealous Amiga users into c.s.a.st to see what's going on, and steamrolls into a cross-posted flame-fest that can go on for months. ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************